Here we go again, yet another conservative politician known for his anti-gay "family values" has been arrested after a sordid attempt to live out his hidden passion for men. They just never learn, do they? Well, it's become apparent to me that many conservative leaders are in fact talking about themselves and their secret hobbies when they speak of the "homosexual agenda". When they warn the public of irresponsible promiscuity they really know what they are talking about. The problem is that they use psychological projection to hurt ordinary gay men.
The Senator has good taste though. Sergeant Dave Karsnia of the Minnesota Police is a real looker.
Senator Craig insists he is not gay. Do you think it's possible for a man to consistently seek gay adventures without being gay?
By the way CLK, do you get MTV's long-running reality show 'The Real World' over there? Almost every season they have one or two gay or lesbian cast members on the show (mostly gay guys actually). I think that show has been very instructive to Americans on what it's like to be gay. It has been to me anyway.
One thing I've learned from the show is how gay guys do run the gamut between being very gay to almost bisexual. For instance last season they had a masculine looking openly gay guy who flirted and ended up having a relationship with another female cast member - and everyone was very surprised. Other times they have some gay guys who are repulsed even at the idea of being with a woman. Perhaps Craig is more towards the bisexual end.
One thing I truly dislike about USA is their extreme justice system. It is a sickening combination of pervert morals and extreme punishment.
What was his crime? Tapping with his right foot and sweeping his hand beneath the stall?
USAgal,
Yes, I think it's possible for a man to consistently seek gay adventures without being gay. Human sexuality is complex, and we often simplify things by saying someone is gay or straight. The truth of the matter is, I think, that there are far more bisexuals than gays. For most bisexual men it's more convenient to ignore the sexual interests for other men. To many, it might even be that "the gay side" is not really known to themselves because they suppress those thoughts. One thing I have learned over the years is that bisexual men who don't really acknowledge that side of themselves often are the most homophobic of all.
On the other hand, when guys come out as gay they tend to do the exact opposite. Acknowledge any heterosexual feelings become taboo. Silly really, because just like there are bisexuals who like women far more than men, there are many who like men far more then women. Your example from "The Real World" is a good one. In a perfect world, people shouldn't need to put labels on themselves. Unfortunately, we are not there yet, and when gay people don't use these labels, they tend to be ignored completely.
"One thing I truly dislike about USA is their extreme justice system. It is a sickening combination of pervert morals and extreme punishment."
Now see, I don't really know what you are talking about. There are certain public bathrooms that become a hangout for gays soliciting sex, and people who want to just use the bathroom have to be subjected to seeing and hearing sex in the bathroom. Surely in Europe you don't approve of public bathrooms being used for this purpose instead of what it's intended for. But I don't know, maybe such things are ignored in bathrooms in Europe. Anyway, his "crime" is just a misdemeanor, which is just a small fine I think.
As to some of the other 'morality' cases you hear about in Europe, they are the exception, not the rule here. Some cases we don't even hear about here, like the teacher with the porn on her computer, while over there it's a huge deal. Probably because we don't care much actually. We figure those people deserve their sentences - we know that you can strike a plea deal or appeal and juries don't usually convict on such cases, etc, so we trust if you are found guilty for such things, it's probably well deserved. If anything, much of the public here, such as conservatives, think we are not extreme enough in the justice system!
"There are certain public bathrooms that become a hangout for gays soliciting sex, and people who want to just use the bathroom have to be subjected to seeing and hearing sex in the bathroom."
They never had sex. This is like when the police set up George Michael in a bathroom.
The government uses the police force to create crime that would never happended.
"If anything, much of the public here, such as conservatives, think we are not extreme enough in the justice system!"
Capital punishment and over 100 years inprisonment for a single convict. Extreme is the correct word.
"We figure those people deserve their sentences - we know that you can strike a plea deal or appeal and juries don't usually convict on such cases, etc, so we trust if you are found guilty for such things, it's probably well deserved."
And the jury system...don't get me started on that one.
Well Tor I agree it does seem a little strange that the Senator was arrested for just tapping his foot. One would think that the police would wait until they saw something more substantial than that. On the other hand, what is the police officer supposed to do before he charges the guy- strip naked first? I heard a lot of legal experts say that because the senator made his intentions known first and started the foot tapping, it wasn't considered entrapment. So I think evidence of clear intent is enough under the law here to get 'charged'. It's an important US legal concept of "probable cause". I also heard the legal experts say that if the senator had wanted to fight it in court, he could have probably gotten off the charge because of what you said, that no sex actually happened, but he didn't because he just wanted the case to go away. I suppose they get a lot of guys to plead guilty that way who want to avoid embarassment. It's kind of tough I guess, but I don't think it's necessarily unfair. Believe me, I have never heard of anyone getting caught in a "bathroom sting", so it's not something that happens on an everyday basis. That bathroom must have been extremely infamous.
As to capital punishment, sorry, I don't have much sympathy for murderers. For one thing, using the death penalty as a bargaining tool for the prosecutor is very effective. I also think that capital punishment is the only thing that truly brings justice for some cases. For instance Ted Bundy was a infamous serial killer here, who tortured and killed over 30 women I think. He was supposed to be very cheerful and defiant in jail, completely unremorseful and keeping busy by working on ways to defend himself legally by exploring legal loopholes. He even had a temporarily successful escape attempt from jail. He was sure that he was smarter than everyone and that he would get hinself out of jail one day. The only thing that got to him was when he faced his death. That was the only thing that seemed to affect him at all and made him realize that he couldn't get out of it anymore. And maybe for a moment, he felt some of the fear and pain that he caused so many others. For that reason, that it is the only way to bring justice sometimes, I support the death penalty in the worst cases. You might think that is extreme, but I think to not have that punishment available is extreme.